The haunting of Jackie Hernandez. A haunting in San Pedro, CA
Barry Conrad at the infamous San Pedro homeThe following case is one of the most infamous and well documented case that exists in the annals of paranormal research.
Taking place in the seedy harbor town of San Pedro, California, it is destined to become one of the most frightening paranormal encounters ever recorded.
In 1989 Dr. Barry Taff and cameraman Barry Conrad along with other associates, embarked on a case that has been one of the most monumental cases ever recorded of poltergeist activity, or attack I should say.
As the story goes, the residence of Jackie Hernandez at 593 west 11th street was the site of a very volatile haunting. Much like Doris Bither from the “Entity” case, Jackie’s haunting was full of psychokinetic energy that manifested itself into visual, auditory and olfactory paranormal phenomenon.
Jackie’s neighbor, Susan Castenada, had made the phone call to Dr. Barry Taff in the late summer of 1989. She reported the poltergeist activity and asked if he could come down and investigate. Jackie was distraught and did not trust Dr. Taff and his associates. Fearing that she would be ridiculed, she did not speak with them. It was not until late august of that year that Jackie herself called in and asked for help.
According to Dr. Taff, Jackie fit the bill of a quintessential poltergeist victim. Jackie came from a very volatile background. Suffering from severe mental duress, she had an uncanny resemblance to Doris Bither’s background. Abused by men, violent lifestyle, mental anguish and depression. Like most poltergeist victims, Jackie lived in an unhealthy environment in which one can argue that was conducive to extreme acts of psychokinetic violence.
Upon starting their investigation, Dr. Taff and his team heard loud scuffling coming from the attic. In what he recalls as “a 200 pound rat running around the attic” the noises were loud enough for everyone to hear. According to Jackie, she said that it was the ghost of the disembodied head she had seen earlier in the attic. When Joe and myself interviewed Barry Conrad who was the cameraman, he mentioned to us that there had been several documentary crews that went to the house, and taking footage only from the outside, they could hear the same loud and heavy scuffling in the attic. The latest report was in late September of 2008.
Then there were the reports of some form of ectoplasmic ooze that seemed to drip down from various places in the home. While the team investigated, the ooze manifested itself. Barry Conrad quickly managed to catch that on tape. The ooze was studied and taken to a forensics lab at UCLA. The results were that it was human blood plasma with high levels of iodine and copper. It’s important to note that the team reported smelling like rust or oxidation when entering the home. There was also the overwhelming stench of decomposing matter, which is a good indicator of a haunting.
Ooze that manifested itself throughout the residence. Later it was determined to be human bloodNow Jackie did report that the poltergeist activity seemed to target her. She told them how the television would turn itself on, appliances would malfunction and objects would be hurled at Jackie. More frightening was when Jackie reported that she had seen two apparitions in her home. Well, three if you count the disembodied head in the attic.
Jackie claimed that while pregnant, she got up in the middle of the night to use the bathroom. Upon passing a bedroom, she saw the apparition of an old man sitting in kid’s bunkbed. Sitting and staring at her. The other time was when she saw another old man that was sitting at her dining room table. She described him as “corpse like” in features and dressing in old fashioned overalls and having a very sunken face. Much like you would picture a corpse.
Now, here is where it gets dangerous. I’ve blogged before here at GhostTheory aboutt he dangers of ghost hunting and what many people do not consider when stepping into a haunted place. When the team was getting ready to leave, Jeff Wheatcraft and Larry Brooks decided to go up to the attic and take a look around, as well as some shots for reference.
Not long after they were both up there, Jeff Wheatcraft reported that he had heard a noise behind him in the dark attic. Without turning around, he swung his camera around and snapped a picture. Seconds after he took that picture, something snatched the camera from his hand and it was thrown several feet back.
Now imaging you entering a home in which the owner reported seeing a disembodied head in the attic, and you hearing sounds like someone moving heavy furniture or a heavyset man running around the attic upon arrival to the home. Would you have gone up the attic to investigate? well if you are a seasoned ghost hunter, I guess that’s all part of the job. For the rest of us, that would not even had been an option. When Barry Conrad was telling me the story from a first hand account, I could not help but think that these guys were nuts for even trying to go up there. Then again, I think when it comes down to stuff like this, I think I’d rather report on it from the safety of being behind my mac.
Sorry, going off a different tangent.
Jackie Hernandez approaching her home in 1989So Jeff Wheatcraft’s camera was snagged from his own hands. Jeff being a hardcore skeptical journalist could not explained how it was that the camera was taken from his hands, and taken apart and put in two different locations in the attic. Jeff and Larry reported that the camera had the lens taken off and placed near some rafters while the camera itself sat in the back of the attic in an old crate.
Now, shaken from the ordeal, they reported what just happened to the crew downstairs. Barry Conrad immediately hooked up his equipment together and went up to the attic to record what was going on. The odd thing, well not so odd for people who are familiar with this, but Barry’s equipment malfunctioned as soon as it passed through the little porthole that led to the attic. Barry could not get the camera to turn on while in the attic. As soon as he stepped down from the attic, it would cut on and work perfectly. So this happened for a few times before them finally giving up. By this time, Jeff and Larry had been up in the attic for some time now.
The team had gone home for the day. Not expecting to witness more than what they had just experienced. A week or so later, Jackie had called Barry complaining about heavy activity going around the house. When the team (except for Dr. Taff) arrived, Jeff and larry quickly went up to the attic. Within a few minutes of being up there, Jeff reported hearing some snapping sounds behind him when all of the sudden he was strung up from his neck by a rope that had been tightened around without Jeff or Larry realizing it. This all happened in a split second. Jeff was hanging from a large nail that was protruding from rafter. Without hesitation, Larry at first hearing the moans and scuffling by Jeff, quickly snapped a few photographs.
In what many have described being one of the eeriest photographs ever taken, Larry managed to capture Jeff hanging from the nail by his neck. Somehow whatever was up there with them got fed up and decided to wrap a cord around Jeff’s neck and literally lift him up and hang him from a nail. Luckily for Jeff, Larry quickly helped him down and they both made their way down after that ordeal.
Jeff Wheatcraft being hung from his neck by an unseen force. In the video that was shot, we see Jeff and Larry making their way down from the attic. Jeff’s face is visibly pale and he looks shaken from what had happened. Now to all those who say that ghosts can’t hurt you, I suggest you study this case.
If Larry was not there with Jeff, this could have easily been a more severe attack. Jeff’s neck could have been broken. After that incident, and without any surprise, Jeff did not go back into that house. Who could blame him?
When we interviewed Barry Conrad, he mentioned that they all had witnessed lights, or orbs that where three-dimensional globs that floated about. In one instance, Barry said that a bright light went through him, feeling the electrical charge, he described it as warm and strong feeling. Statically charged, he was knocked out.
Now what follows brings a whole new element to a case that is said to result from psychokinetic energy. PK cases usually result from an individual who is highly unstable and revolve around them. Manifestation occurring only when the victim is present. In the Jackie Hernandez case, this was not what happened.
When Jackie had called Barry Conrad in order to drop something off at his house, Barry quickly met her outside and picked up the object and talked for a moment, then went back inside his condo. Within days of that brief contact, Barry reported that the ghost or ghosts had followed him as well. Strange things started happening in his condo. Chairs re-arranging themselves to the middle of the room, flashlight turned on and left in the middle of another room, pointing up. The most critical of these incidents was when Barry found his stove on and live bullets sitting on the stove.
Those of us who have studied poltergeist and paranormal phenomenon, know that it is rare, almost unheard of when the activity targets another individual. PsychoKinetic energy is emanated from an individual and focused on or around them. In the Jackie Hernandez case, the activity seemed to target her, as well as others leading most of us to believe that this was no PK case, much like the Doris Bither case.
I remember Barry Conrad telling us that in one instance, when they were about to be interviewed on a popular television talk show, upon arrival, he believed that Jackie’s presence had made the production equipment fail. Cameras and teleprompters failed to respond for quite sometime. Something no one in the studio had ever witnessed before. So if this was the case, could it have been that the ghost followed them to the studio and caused the equipment to fail? Or could it have been Jackie? and if it was Jackie that caused this, why did it not affect Barry’s cameras in the other times he had interviewed her?
Then there is also the second time Jeff Wheatcraft was attacked again.
Shortly after the San Pedro incident, Jackie had moved to Kern county, which is a small and rural area about 380 miles north of Los Angeles. When she had reported to the team that the activity had followed her, Jeff and Barry had made their way up there. They wanted to capture more activity on film. Jeff, feeling that he was safe being that he was far from the San Pedro home, did not have any qualms about going and visiting Jackie. While up there, Jackie’s neighbors, who had helped her move in, reported that while doing so, they were carrying a television when a ghostly face manifested itself on the screen.
When Barry and Jeff arrived, they started to notice poltergeist activity right off the bat. Orbs of lights were seen. A heavy camera mounted on a tripod was swung around by some unseen force. One of Jackie’s neighbors decided to us a Ouija board to contact the spirit that was haunting her.
During the seance, they managed to ask the ghost(s) a few key questions. Barry and Jeff had their hands on the planchette and started asking questions. Simple questions like: Are you a ghost? were answered with the planchette moving towards the written “Yes” on the board. Making itself known, the ghost moved it repeatedly to the “Yes” in a fast motion, back and forth.
Now before they actually started the seance, Barry reported that the temperature had dropped in that room. Making it feel like it was freezing inside. There were 3 candles that were lit which the ghost would blow out in succession. This happened a few times.
When I mentioned earlier that the Jackie Hernandez case could not have been fully a PK case, I based it on a few facts, like while during the seance, the ghost would reply to them in old english language. Nothing of which Jackie ever used or was in her day to day lexicon or vernacular. One example was the use of word “Phantoms” instead of ghosts. Where Barry asked something along the lines of “how many ghosts are there” and the answer was: “Phantoms fill the skies around you“. Another example was when the sun was barley coming up, the ghost spelled out: “I must go now, the sun cometh“.
Again, something not very shakespearean, but something that someone with Jackie’s vernacular would not have thought of saying. Does this rule out PK influence? No. But it is strong evidence to the contrary.
While asking the ghost questions, they had asked why it had targeted Jeff. The ghost replied that he “resembled his killer“.
According to Jackie, she had done a few seances before and had gotten two names that could be of the ghost. Herman Hendrickson and John Damon. Said to have been murdered. Barry Conrad told us that the ghost targeted Jeff because he resembled the killer. Who Barry believes to have been a guy named Charles Pearson. Barry did some digging around and found out that Charles Pearson was a seaman that had a bad reputation in San Pedro. Attempts on locating him proved futile since he died a while back.
It is important to note that the noose that was tied around Jeff’s neck was from an old cord that was fastened together using a “sailor’s knot”. Goosebumps yet?
According to the ghost during the questioning, it said that he never resided in the 593 west 11th street house. His killer had lived there.
When they asked it why it targeted Jackie, the ghost responded: “Energy”. So they asked it again, “what kind of energy?” “Dead” it responded. Assuming it meant that Jackie had negative dead energy.
While they were asking questions, Jeff was once again attacked. Witnesses there all claimed that while Jeff was sitting down, something had picked him up and threw him across the room. Hitting a high point of the wall and coming down. Unfortunately, the cameras refused to work, so nothing was captured on film.
So what can we make of this case? it seems that as much as we like to think that it resembles the Doris Bither case, it differs in such great ways. The ghost in this case targeted a victim and the people around her as well as a geographical area.
barry told us that his maid had overheard him talking about the case and mentioned to him that she lived a few blocks away from Jackie in San pedro. She went on to say that she had seen that old man ghost in the street. She described him wearing the overalls and flannel shirt that Jackie had mentioned. The maid said that the apparition lasted for a bit and seemed to follow her.
I don’t know if we should consider this as evidence, since it is a great possibility that the maid could have overheard all the details including the details of the clothing and just mentioned it to get some form of attention. Then again, who’s to say I’m right, the ghost did say that it never lived in that home.
Jackie Hernandez has since moved back to San Pedro and has not reported any new disturbances. The house on 593 west 11th street, however still is reported to be haunted. According to the owner of the place, no tenant has stayed there more than 6 months at a time.
Production crews attempting to get some new stock footage, report loud bangs emanating from the attic.
I must warn that any ghost hunting group wanting to go there be careful since the ghost is known to have followed people home.
Barry Conrad and Victoria Gross were kind enough to give me a few DVDs which they have produced. One of them, “An unknown encounter” is the documentary on the Jackie Hernandez case. It shows unseen footage of the haunting including the noises in the attic and the more famous hanging photograph and after math. It’s a very well made DVD and I highly recommend it for all you paranormal enthusiasts out there.
You can order it from Barry’s website:
An unknown encounter
Written by Javier Ortega - javier@ghosttheory.com
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Very informative article. I had always been intrigued by this case yet never read up on it until now. Lately, I’ve been starting to come to this site more frequently and have now made it one of my usual stops on the information superhighway! Thanks to both you & Joe!
Justin,
Thanks for the kind words. We are very diligent when doing reports on cases. I’m glad you like what we do and hope you continue to read and participate in our discussions. You’ll be glad to know that Joe is working on the writing the interview part of this case. We interviewed Barry conrad. If we can, we will include the audio as a podcast for you guys to listen.
Thanks again!
If you go to YouTube and check out the Paranormal TV Channel you can watch the full length documentary “An Unknown Encounter” about this case. I found it very interesting. It’s about a hour and a half long and there is some interesting stuff.
BC,
“An unknown Encounter” is a very similar story to the Doris Bither case.
It involved Jackie Hernandez. In San Pedro California.
I wrote a piece on that:
http://www.ghosttheory.com/paranormal-cases/the-haunting-of-jackie-hernandez-a-haunting-in-san-pedro-ca/
A similar case, but not related.
Right Javier- that’s why I commented here underneath your article regarding the Jackie Hernandez case.
I’m guessing you thought I was still commenting on your recent interview.
BC,
LOL. Sorry…it was a long day yesterday!
Enjoyed this very in depth, more information that I’ve read on other sites. I have a theory, if you will call it that, about a spirit following someone home. I believe that a spirit follows someone based on their energy (of course, as you said) but I believe that contrary what I’ve read it isn’t always bad energy that attracts them, it’s the individule energy each persons engery is diffrent (like a fingerprint) and like a favorite color, smell or food it draws them to you. So, I think it’s the place your engery may takes or reminds the spirit/ghost of. My godfather has a very nice engery really the only way I can explain it and whenever I feel……uneasy (have company the I can not see) at home I have him come by, b/c they (spirits/ghosts) tend to like his engery much more. He usually knows whats going on when I invite him over, but he deals well with it and they don’t usually stay long with him, that I know of. Is’t actually quite interesting. Okay I’ve babbled enough, either way thanks for the great reading.
Fantastic
i have a trick you could use hear to catch the little beesty on film.
You mention that the cameras stop working when in the attick.( ok)
So dont go in the attick, Use a small drill and drill 2/3 or 4 small holes from the outside of the attick usind a ladder.
Then position pin hole cameras looking in to the roof space.
As an electrical engineer i fit these all the time for covert survelance in banks.
it always bothers me that we dont get proper footage of ghosts caught on camera.
Ps i would love to visit this house and get down rite personal with the little beestie.
Hi,
I didn’t sleep all weekend after reading some of your articles. They scared the hell out of me. This site is awesome!
Glynis,
I’m glad we’re keeping you awake with our posts.
Welcome!
-Javier
Hmm, it had me all the way up till the DVD’s for sale at the end.
jbondo,
Well, the DVDs came about 2 decades later.
Barry Conrad just finished a book about his experiences in the case.
I think it would be fair to say that financial gain was not the motive behind this since the sales of the documentary and book started late last year.
-Javier
Point taken!
THANK GOD!!!! i watched a show aboutt his on tv many years ago and i was trying to tell my husband about it but couldnt remember the womans name or where she lived or anything importnat to start my search with and i FINALLY found this article
Jackie came from a very volatile background. Suffering from severe mental duress, she had an uncanny resemblance to Doris Bither’s background. Abused by men, violent lifestyle, mental anguish and depression. Like most poltergeist victims, Jackie lived in an unhealthy environment in which one can argue that was conducive to extreme acts of psychokinetic violence.
hmmmmmm.
When Joe and myself interviewed Barry Conrad who was the cameraman, he mentioned to us that there had been several documentary crews that went to the house, and taking footage only from the outside, they could hear the same loud and heavy scuffling in the attic.
all kinds of normal things can make noises in attics — pipes, animals?
…ectoplasmic ooze that seemed to drip down from various places in the home…it was human blood plasma with high levels of iodine and copper. It’s important to note that the team reported smelling like rust or oxidation when entering the home.
i don’t suppose anyone thought to excavate the walls. perhaps someone was actually murdered…or…did anyone have access to actual plasma from a hospital or other facility who could have planted this “ectoplasm”?
There was also the overwhelming stench of decomposing matter, which is a good indicator of a haunting.
or evidence of a trapped dead rat, cat, squirrel etc etc. i had one in our wall one time — NASTY smell. we were also constantly hearing thumps and noises in our attic. it was rats. we set traps and one died inside a wall.
I must warn that any ghost hunting group wanting to go there be careful since the ghost is known to have followed people home.
send a team of pesky skeptics in. that’ll show ‘em!
“Well, the DVDs came about 2 decades later.
Barry Conrad just finished a book about his experiences in the case.
I think it would be fair to say that financial gain was not the motive behind this since the sales of the documentary and book started late last year.”
i disagree. i think financial gain has everything to do with it.
what better timing than the late 90s (thanks to the success of all of the other paranormal TV shows) for DVDs, books and episodes on the bravo channel??
evidently the place is even a “tourist attraction” now:
“Television shows, News Media and even a few “ghost-buster’s” flocked this home daily in an attempt to be the one to capture the San Pedro Haunting. The home is still standing to this day and is a great tourist attraction.”
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/616209/haunted_houses_in_san_pedro.html?cat=16
(interesting to note that the author of the above article also suggests that jackie may have had a bit of an unhealthy infatuation for dr. taft and was doing a lot of the stuff herself for attention)
anyhoo — i see financial gain motives all over the place. but then i’m cynical like that.
ooops, maybe i shouldn’t have said what better timing than the late 90s — i should have said what better timing than now
i’d say the shows, books and “tourist attractions” are definitely profit-driven.
as for whether any $$ exchanged hands or was an issue during the actual events in ‘89 i have no idea – i bet someone could do some digging and find out though (were book/media deals being discussed by the involved parties). suffice it to say there is still no irrefutable proof of anything “poltergeist” in any of these cases – just lots of anecdotes and hearsay.
the ratio of people with existing ‘issues’ being the ones to have these experiences is pretty telling, imho.
too bad some actual psychologists and/or MDs weren’t consulted along with dr. taff.
after typing that i suppose someone could find out if there might have been monetary motives in this case, i did a quick google of barry taff. back in 1981, taff was a technical director on “the entity”, the movie version of that other “poltergeist” case he investigated.
also, go to imdb.com and type in doctor barry taff.
apparently he has quite the set of hollywood connections.
i say poltergeists-for-profit all the way, baby!
not sure if this is the same barry conrad working his angle on this case or not (judging by the content i’d guess it is) but if so….you do the money math:
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0175608/
interesting to note that when barry taff (taft?) and kerry gaynor worked the doris bither case in 1974 they were both graduate STUDENTS in the psychology departmant under thelma moss.
thelma moss was not only a PhD, she was a screen writer and an early member of the actors studio.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thelma_Moss
please note that the UCLA parapsychology lab they were all associated with is defunct.
in between poltergeist fests, kerry gaynor was associated with a polaroid “ghost writing” incident (may be the same one discussed here at GT, i dunno.)
according to one susan michaels, author of “sightings”, steven speilberg’s “poltergeist” movie was also based on one of kerry gaynor’s cases – though i haven’t found any other information corroborating this tidbit.
evidently kerry gaynor is now a hypnotist to the stars.
seriously, i don’t see the taff/gaynor/moss body of “parapsychology” work as being all that scientific unless you count book/movie/tv deals as science.
you are quoting wikipedia?
The site that can be edited by anyone?
how about an actual source that isnt biased?
so, now wikipedia is biased about thelma moss?
sorry, i had no idea. i was simply providing a concise starting point for someone to reference thelma moss as the lead in those poltergeist “investigations”. if anyone wants to see whether the wikipedia info is truthful or not they can follow up at will.
pretty funny how out of all of the points i raised, that’s the only thing you could latch onto, andrew.
No becuase your arguments are stupid and biased and completely based upon your opinion. You have absolutely no proof or references that equate to anything but more opinion and generally you are just trying to seem sooo smart. I have no idea why you belive that your points are even valid when you cite a one sided argument that isnt even based upon anything but biased information. Basically your opinions are mute becuase you are doing nothing but regurgitating theorys of other skeptics and stating them as fact. now please if u want to make a statement either do it from and objective point of view or go back to your skeptic site.
I recently saw a documentary about this and many things struck me as suspicious. For example, when the “haunting” followed Hernandez to her new home she called out the ghosthunting team. According to the documentary the cameraman walked round with the camera rolling practically all the time – he filmed everything, just in case. So far so good.
Yet one evening they allegedly held a seance where apparently candles blew out and re-lit spontaneously, objects flew around the room, messages were communicated and Wheatcraft was flung right out of his chair and into the wall, knocking him out. Oddly enough, during the course of these protracted and dramatic events nobody attempted to take any film footage whatsoever. All the footage concentrated on “events” that happened when people were out of the room, or a gate opening and closing, or a pool of liquid, resulting in no footage that was in any way inexplicable.
Also, when Wheatcraft was “hanged” there was barely a mark on his neck from the cord – a tiny red mark, no bruising. I get a worse mark from wearing a shirt with a too tight collar – I’m not joking. And it was convenient that he was hanged right where he could – and did – support himself on a diagonal beam. Now that’s a considerate ghost.
And I have to mention the orbs. That in itself is a good enough reason to doubt the judgement of the investigating team. Bascically they filmed insects which, being lit by the bright light from the camera, resulted in blurred lights moving around on the film. In some of the frames the wings of the insects are clearly seen in classic “wing-beat” patterns. In others the insect – sorry, orb – could be seen disappearing when it passed into shadow and re-appearing when it re-entered the light (that’s camera light, not heavenly light, just to be clear)
But no, the team denied these were insects, citing that insects fly “at random” and never in straight lines. Of course this is nonsense. Many insects move in fast, straight lines and gradual curves; bees, wasps and house flies being just a few (ever heard of making a bee-line?) If someone cannot distinguish an insect from a ghost then I cannot take seriously anything else they say.
Si,
There are definitely discrepancies in this story.
Like you pointed out, a lot of the stuff can be explained. The problem is that there is no proof for either sides of the story. The only evidence we have is the blood plasma that was oozing from the walls (Which UCLA did determine to be human and did not come from anyone in the house) and the eyewitness reports from Dr. Barry Taff, Camera man and investigators.
So you have to look at the evidence that is presented and form an educated opinion. Yes, it sounds convenient that they did not film when they were attacked and the candles blowing out, but when we interviewed Barry Conrad (camera man) he stated that when they arrived, their equipment was fully charged and ready to go, but as soon as they tried to use it all the batteries were completely drained.
It’s difficult to form an opinion with cases like this. I’m still on the fence.
-Javier
did investigators ever do research on the identity of the ghost and did they ever solve the case and catch the person who killed him.
Hi I was just wondering, do You know if anyone lives in the home now or is it abandoned? How do I get permission to go and do an investigation on this place? I have been very intrigued by the study of the paranormal and I started up my own little crew, we call ourselves The Beyond The Grave Ghost Hunters Society. We are small right now but really plan to grow in the near future. We have had unsuccessful attempts as to contacting people in charge of places that we want to investigate. How do you usually get in contact to get permission to go inside? Thanks.
Tina,
These are all private residences.
I don’t condone anyone show up and ask the current owners about the case. Might seem a bit intrusive.
Your best bet would be to build up a name for yourself by blogging, then cases will come to you.
-Javier
Javier, I’d like to add one more point to Tina’s question about going to someone’s residence. Public places are great to walk in and say, “can we investigate your ghost stories.” But even then it’s a bit intrusive.
They should do some research on different locations in their area and see what kind of documented stories there are. Then go directly to the location and look for someone in charge. If it’s a private residence, your best bet is to make sure your name is out there and that you have a reputation for debunking so they can contact you.
If you force yourselves on people then you’re not likely to a)get an invite to investigate and/or b)not have any activity while you’re on your investigation.
Good luck on your investigations and be careful, your next one may offer you some challenges that you weren’t expecting.
Michka
I don’t advise contacting people at home for this sort of thing, I will bet all my pocket money on theory that all the people who left this house within 6months knew about or learnt about this story.
You cannot and should not plant the seed of doubt in people’s minds, it can be dangerous and as other have said, highly intrusive and rude. Posters leaflets and freeads are great but be prepared to be tested and called out as frauds by people like myself who sometimes have nothing better to do =)
this is a big hoax a load off bullshit dumb americans
Unfortunately with any case like this we are heavily reliant on nothing really more than just opinions and eye witnesses, and in science we know what eye witnesses and testimonials are amongst the most unreliable sources of evidence because they tend to change and become more exaggerated as the story goes on.
I do not know “Jackie” so I will not make any statement accusing her of being a fraud or con artist, but I think they are all under some form of group delusion, believing that there is something else, without actually checking what is really there at all.